Some recent events over at Flight Rising have caused a fair bit of controversy, and have left their community (and others, too) fairly divided on a particular question: just how far does your right to free speech go? Since the LGBTQ issues which sparked the conflict are issues that many of us feel close to, and since many of you are members over there and the questions that have sprung up around it are questions that we all deal with merely by being a community, Mycena Cave staff would like to take a few moments to address the events.

Background

It seems that recently, one of the administrators over at Flight Rising made some very unfortunate and insensitive comments about people of atypical sexuality on his personal Facebook profile, and subsequently got dismissed from the Flight Rising administration. This has left many people feeling divided — one side feels that personal opinions posted on personal Facebook profiles are protected by free speech and thus his dismissal is unfair, the other feels that his views are toxic and that after outing himself he himself becomes toxic to the Flight Rising community. What makes this situation particularly difficult was the fact that neither side of the conflict acted with grace — I am shocked to say that the ex-administrator received death threats, among other things — which means that as soon as you “side with” one group, tribalism takes over and you instantly make yourself open to criticism for how some member of your group acted. Please be mindful of this when you discuss the issue.

Freedom of expression, and what it means within a community

You, as a human being, have an unalienable right to Freedom of Expression. And yet we have forum moderation. Isn’t that an infringement of your rights? In fact it is not: freedom of expression is not absolute in any setting. For example, copyright infringement, hate speech and incitement of violence are all examples of limitations to this freedom. Furthermore, when expression happens within a privately owned area, the owners have the final say in what goes and what doesn’t (this is why political demonstrations almost always happen in public places, and why demonstrators get arrested when they don’t).

But what that administrator said was not covered by any of these limiting categories, and was said on Facebook which is generally treated as a public space. He expressed an opinion, in a non-violent way, merely stating his personal preferences. Surely he is allowed to express his preferences, isn’t he? He is indeed. His statement and subsequent discussion were not illegal in any way, and it was entirely within his rights to say what he said. On the other hand, it was entirely within Flight Rising’s rights to ask him to leave the administration as a result. As such, the question we’re grappling here is not a legal one, but a societal one.

Surely what you say off-site in your own private time on your own personal speech platforms (e.g. Facebook) should not be held against you where you work, right? After all, nobody moderates the internet as a whole. Should we be allowed to say anything we like on our own personal platforms, without repercussions from the communities that we are involved with? For better or worse, the society we live in answers this question with a resounding no. When you are a recognized member of a group, your words anywhere reflect on that group. When you reflect poorly on this group, whether you are acting inside its boundaries or not, it will impose sanctions on you.

When a community fights for its ideals, and it is revealed that one of its leaders does not share those ideals, this person cannot continue to lead it. Worse still is if he announces these feelings publicly. Flight Rising (much like Mycena Cave) touts itself as inclusive and LGBTQ friendly. As human beings the leaders are entitled to hold any opinion they like, but if one of them cannot find respect for a class of individuals that they promise a welcoming home to, then that individual is not a good leader for them. The alternative to would have been for the Flight Rising staff to abandon the ideal of being an LGBTQ safe haven - something they were unwilling to do.

What about regular members, who are just talking with their friends?

Almost all communities and organizations consider how their members act, even when outside their jurisdiction. For example, binge drinking and causing public disturbances while wearing your university’s branded clothing will get you in trouble with your university. Blogging about how much your company sucks will get you in trouble with your job. It’s not your intended audience that matters, it’s who your words reach — and if your words ever reach a person or entity who will hold them against you in this way, then they were by definition not private. Remember that the internet, by and large, is a public broadcast medium. Your two-person Tumblr conversation isn’t like talking with someone in your living-room, it’s like talking with someone on TV, except that everything you say also gets written down and stored forever.

On that note, if you have not already done so, please read through our site rules. You will find the following rule amid the others: “Be kind, courteous, respectful and polite. This applies everywhere related to Mycena Cave, including forums and chat rooms and even off-site[...]”.

glitch’s personal reflections:

This whole situation is unfortunate, and it illustrates the impressive damage that a few poorly chosen words can cause. This ex-administrator, being a programmer, is easy for me to relate to. We’re primed to look at things in a particular way. We deal constantly with the binary concept of true vs false. We are also trained to understand the difference between “transformation” and “casting” (which alters what an entity appears to be, without altering the underlying data-structure). These apply directly to a huge number of things in life, even outside of programming and science in general, and the fact that the subtler nuances involved are generally poorly understood outside of scientific communities is a source of a lot of frustration. It’s not hard to see how a programmer who may have had little exposure to LGBTQ in his past (most of us haven’t!) could view gender in this way: believing that you are either male or female, and that gender reassignment therapy doesn’t really change your gender. It’s also not hard to imagine a few otherwise minor events occurring on his way home that may have precipitated the tone in what he thought were just a few snarky comments on Facebook.

We’re also often not the best at… uh, you know, the soft stuff. Feelings and all that. It probably never occurred to this guy that his words would hurt people. His comments probably sounded entirely reasonable to himself. He’s probably surrounded by people who feel similarly to him, merely because in his circles nobody has seriously challenged these views before. He probably still amazed that his words actually hurt people. He’s probably still in a state of some shock.

In short, this person said some things that hurt a lot of people, but from what I’ve read it doesn’t sound like he’s a “bad guy”. At the very least he will learn a lot from this and be a better person for it, and when it comes down to it that’s really all we can ask for. Remember, he’s just another human being doing his best to learn from a mistake. The difference between him now, and some time that you made some kind of horrible embarrassingly shameful mistake, is that while you probably managed to keep yours relatively quiet, his was seen by thousands and thousands of people. Affording him the respect that you would hope to be afforded if you found yourself in a similar situation is the best way to help him learn.

And finally, while I’m sure that none of the threats or other ugly things that happened came from any of you, understand that threats are never, ever — under any circumstances whatsoever — appropriate or acceptable.

Glitch, I just wanted to thank you for posting something like this. Every day something reminds me that the internet is not a private place, and I think it becomes more and more public with each new user to an internet-access computer. That’s just how the space has evolved over time, and we need to live with the responsibilities that come with such a public community.

I also think that understanding the values of a community are important when making statements, even away from that community. If Mr. FR (my new nickname because it’s easier than saying “ex-administrator of FlightRising) feels something contrary to the values of his community, he should not be posting such thoughts publicly, as they reflect views contrary to those of his organization and thus create controversy in an area where there used to be a set policy. It’d be like one of the people who works for my mother, an orthodontist, going on Facebook and saying that orthodontia is a load of bull. Given, my example is far more benign and certainly not identical in nature, but I think the similarities are present enough for me to use it.

And I’d like to thank you again, glitch, for saying you thought this administrator wasn’t a bad guy. I think we often forget that those with different values are still good people. I actually encountered someone the other day that thought I was damned because I say the Hail Mary, a prayer the Catholic Church has used for hundreds of years. Said person also said I was an atheist for believing in evolution. And you know what? At first I thought something was seriously wrong with that guy. And I was going to start feeling like he had some major issues he needed to work out. And I was going to start mentally calling him a jerk (and much worse names). And then I realized that he simply grew up differently from me and that our differences would just have to remain that way. I’m glad that the administration of Mycena Cave recognizes this. I think RESPECTFUL recognition of differences is a key aspect of adulthood, and I love the maturity and insight of this announcement.

All in all, I approve.

I don’t have a Flight Rising account and therefore wasn’t aware of the happenings in their corner of the internet. It’s unfortunate this sort of thing does happen, but to focus on just the tiniest positive note here… I hope at least some people will learn a lesson from this fallout.

It’s important to think before speaking, or posting online for that matter, and consider what your words might do to others. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but our individual personal viewpoints are rarely if ever inclusive of all relative facts, and therefore I find it’s best to approach certain topics in an open minded manner instead of flat out criticizing. On the flip side, this also means that if you are the offended party then perhaps taking a step back and allowing yourself time to cool down a bit could help keep your response respectful and sensible. Otherwise you run the risk of making things even worse by reacting too emotionally.

Thanks for giving us your thoughts on the matter, glitch. It’s good to know Mycena Cave is open to these topics and that the administration is capable of handling it so maturely.

It’s a pity he’s not actually interested in learning. Not long after his apology he went around to reddit defending his initial statements. But I digress, I don’t want to go on a debate about the topic.

There’s a reason I mentioned that. It’s because unfortunately pride often gets in the way of someone being a good ally. That’s why those of us in the lgbtq community often don’t feel safe even in the company of those who claim to be allies-many still somehow find a way to make it about themselves. Their being an ally is always based on how well they’re treated regardless of how they act. An ally should be always learning, always humble, and always reflecting on how their decisions affect marginalized groups. It’s important to remember that being an ally doesn’t make one immune to bigotry. Some people will never learn that no matter how many times they’re told.

But it’s good to know that the kind of statements he made aren’t approved of here. I’ve never feared something like this would happen with mycenacave’s admins and it feels much safer here in this community because of that. There aren’t too many communities online that feel that way these days. So thank you for this announcement.

This is an exceptionally good post, glitch.
I’m always really proud to have such a logical, but ever growing staff member, willing to take a step back from situations and try to apply it to everyday life.

I can personally say as a current and former staff member for various petsites, it is hard not to post your personal belief as a user — or rather an individual — about current politics, the userbase or executive choices made that you might not completely support. However, if you aren’t the type to hold your tongue or level out your pride, I’d say you aren’t someone to run in a position that can be socially scrutinized.

I’ve grown a lot over the past couple years and I understand more and more everyday how much words hurt people and what you say in “private” can always be dug up if the person is that invested on messing with your reputation. In a sense, having general accountability in everyday life makes a difference in how you may react when “no one is watching” and if you are one to be two faced or spout shit offsite, you will eventually get caught.

I suppose this is the reason I honestly watch what I say more than ever, especially on places like Facebook — Even if I’m upset at that certain point of time,  is it worth a future or current employee/employer to use a certain post against you if you mess up in real life? You might feel safe on the internet, but I don’t think some people really understand the tracks they can leave behind and can potentially lead from website to website and in the worst cases, effect you in real life.  I don’t think anyone can trust all their friend’s on facebook or peers on a website community 100% unless it’s less than what you can count on your own hands. So it’s in your best interest to really educate yourself and realize what types of things you shouldn’t give an opinion on.

If you are concerned about a hotly debated topic or something that you might think that can get you in trouble, it’s best to talk to that person face-to-face or have incredible trust built up over years of conversing. Vent with them and keep it as private as possible. Do a lot of introspection and come to terms with your anger or judge what you want to say. Maybe keep things to yourself when possible? Apologize when necessary and say it when you mean it, not because it’s the “right thing to do.”

Personally, I have very strong feelings about censorship. People should have right to say whatever they want, wherever they want unless it’s something that threatens a life. However, on the other side of things, you need to understand if you say something ungracefully, you can’t be upset when there is backlash. But sometimes you need that to learn and grow as a person, if you are willing to move on. Through this, if someone messes up, you will be more willing to forgive someone if they are sincere and realize people are people and we all make mistakes!

I have a Flight Rising account and myself ignored whatever drama happened on someone’s personal Facebook account since I was not in any way part of it. I guess it’s interesting that there’s now an official site-wide news announcement dragging whatever drama happened there for view here of Mycena Cave… a completely separate site.

Regardless, thanks for the reminder on behavior. I always looked at it similar to being in a school or business; when you’re in another person’s establishment, you follow their rules or get ejected.

While part of me is surprised to see this spill onto another site it shows how far-reaching the internet has become.  This is a good example of why everything on the internet should be treated as if it is being loudly discussed in a very public area.

That said I admire Glitch and the very fair treatment of the issue.  Bad manners, while often causing hurt feeling should not be answered with even worse manners.  The best lesson to take from this is to consider what your words will do to others you have never met (remember that crowded room you are shouting in) and if you are upset wait until you are calmer then answer the way you would want a loved one to be answered.  Your side of the issue will also be judged by your demeanor.

I’m just glad that Mycena Cave is open to all of us and will hopefully remain as drama free as possible.