Hi everyone!

If you’ve looked at the [site rules](/home/rules) recently, you’ll see it doesn’t quite seem finished. Especially that odd little note at the top, indicating you should re-familiarize yourself with them when you sign up — a vestige of the fact that they’re not finished, and we totally thought we’d give them a complete review before opening this website to signups…... over a year ago! They really need to be finished up.

I realized I have this whole community of smart, thoughtful people, and I’d be stupid not to ask them for your input. **This is your chance to influence Mycena Cave’s stance on a lot of issues.**

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## [[IMPORTANT]] Thread participation rules:

I would like for this thread to be a discussion, be as constructive as possible, and also manageable for the admins to sort through. So, with that in mind:

- **Read every response in this thread before posting your own. If it is apparent that you did not, or if your post is off topic, your post will be removed.**
- It’s easy to tear something down, and a lot harder to build something up. This debate will be a constructive one (in the literal sense), which means that if you disagree with something **please propose an alternative that you think would be better**.
- If somebody has already said something similar to what you want to say, feel free to express your support but keep it brief: **it will not help the discussion if we all have to read pages and pages of what is essentially the same stuff**. To avoid restating what other people have already said, feel free to link directly to the posts that you agree with.
- The Mycena Cave administration will have the final say in what the rules end up being. Your input in this thread will have a strong influence on the final set of rules, but some of the fundamental rules are not up for debate (e.g. “one account per person”, etc)
- Avoid phrases like “because it will be better” or “It’s obvious tht Mycena Cave *needs* this” in favor of actually explaining why you think it will be better. **This debate is not a vote**, it is an open discussion in which you have the opportunity to *convince* the administration that your idea is a good one.
- If you disagree with somebody, do so respectfully. Nobody here would like Mycena Cave to become worse. If you read something somebody writes or suggests and think it’s a terrible idea, **keep in mind that somebody who has thought about it for a while thinks it’s a good idea**. Try to understand *why* they think it’s a good idea before responding.

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## Outline of the proposed new rules

Here is the general outline of what I think the rules should be. The new set of rules will *replace* our existing ones. Please note that **what follows is a debate topic, not an official set of rules**. When referencing something, please include its section so that people reading your post can find it easily.

### Section 1: Account access

- no more than one account per person
  - *one person with multiple accounts will result in a site ban, and the closure of all of their accounts*
- account sharing is allowed
  - if you log in from different computers, inform an admin
  - if you share an account with someone, you may *not* have a separate account of your own, share a different account with someone else, etc.
- accessing each others’ accounts?
  - should users be allowed to let other people log in as them on occasion?
      - would be useful for completing trades when you’re out of town, posting updates, etc
      - would only be allowed to perform actions which don’t affect the person’s account (e.g. no playing games, no eventing, etc)
        - what would be a good way of making sure that doesn’t happen?
  - *playing games / eventing on another users’ account will result in that user losing access to games / events*
- selling accounts *is* allowed
  - account sales must involve an administrator
  - *never* share your password with whoever you’re selling to / buying from
  - forum posts, echos, etc will be transferred

### Section 2: Exploits, cheating, etc

- report bugs and exploits directly and privately to the administration
- *any* action which results in you having an unfair advantage over other players is considered exploiting the site.
  Some recent examples of things we consider to be exploitative include:
  - it was briefly possible to mine tiles after the Summer event ended by going directly to the mining page
  - it was possible to get multiple free pets by putting your pet in a trade, getting another free one, then canceling the trade
  - private staff forum threads were briefly visible in the staff members’ “recent posts” page
- we reward people who report exploitable bugs to us (usually a number of gems, depending on the severity) under the following conditions:
- user has exploited it minimally, for testing purposes only
- user reported it privately to administration, *not* e.g. in chat or on the forums, etc
- user did not tell other users about the bug until after receiving confirmation that it was fixed
- unless told otherwise, feel free to tell people / brag about exploits that you find **after they have been fixed**
- if you inform another user of an exploit before it is fixed, *you will also be held responsible* if that user exploits it
- *repercussion for exploiting a bug depends on (a) whether what you did can easily be rolled back, (b) how much you (would have) gained, (c) whether you impacted other players, and (d) how much time I had to spend cleaning up after you. It can range from a warning echo to a site ban*

### Section 3: Tools / extensions

- Mycena Cave is a developer-friendly area
- if you want to make an extension or user-script, go for it! Such tools are allowed as long as they follow these rules:
1. it may not make requests (load pages, submit data, etc) on behalf of the user
- e.g. autorefreshers, auto-forum-posters, etc
2. it may not provide unfair advantage
- e.g. scripts which automatically play the games, etc
- if you make something cool, sharing it with the community is encouraged
- if you make something *really* cool and we actually build some of your functionality into the site, you’ll get something nice from us :)

### Section 4: Game rules

- we take care to design our games to be as tamper-proof as possible
- sometimes, this isn’t possible (e.g. Mushroom Meals) :(
- games should be self-contained (e.g. using tools such as sudoku solvers is not ok, etc)

### Section 5: Event rules

- nothing that isn’t already covered, you may not event from each others accounts, don’t exploit them, etc etc
- events don’t need to be self-contained (e.g. using tools such as scrabble solvers is fine, etc)

### Section 6: Content rules

- be wary of potentially offensive content
- understand that what is not offensive to you might be offensive to others
- profanity allowed in moderation, but not directed at another player
- avoid topics intensively offensive to an identity (e.g. holocaust jokes, etc)
- handle disputes in a mature way
- in the event of a dispute (a trade gone sour, taking offense, etc) reslove it outside of public spaces
- either resolve the issue with the person in question directly via private message, or contact a moderator
- do *not* try to engage parties not affected by the dispute (e.g. “I told all of chat and they totally agree with me!”)
- mature content
- **no sexually explicit content**
- generally speaking, “mature” content is okay
- mature content in forum threads must have an [M] tag in the thread title (is this a good rule?)
- **the following are unacceptable under ANY circumstances**
- hate speech or bullying
- intolerance towards racial, sexual, gender, religious, disability or personal identity
- incitements to violence or self-harm, personal or animal abuse
- **these apply *anywhere* you disclose your MC identity**.

### Section 7: Forum rules

- **follow instructions given to you by a moderator**
- be excellent to each other:
- be respectful, courteous and kind
- be direct and forthright, avoid being passive aggressive
- before you click submit, read through your post as though you were the person receiving it — how does it make you feel?
- giving constructive criticism is actually very difficult
- are you sure what you’re about to post is constructive?
- do not engage in flame wars or feed the trolls
- use proper spelling and grammar and so on
- we’re not going to be jerks about this, but plz cn u not do dis lol kthx <3
- no spam (this includes RL things *and* your trading threads)
- spam is hard to quantify, but a good rule of thumb is to ask yourself why you are posting
- links to places where you sell things are fine, as long as it’s not done in a spammy way:
- does people reading your post primarily benefit you, or them? (aim for them).
- avoid “advertisement” in favor of “showcase” or “recommendation”
- *breaking forum rules will generally result in a moderator warning. Repeated warnings may lead to temporary or permanent loss of forum privileges*.

### Section 8: Chat rules

- same as the forum rules
- although spelling / grammar is somewhat relaxed
- anything else?

My concern is this rule here, in Section 1 under account rules.
if you log in from different computers, inform an admin

Somehow this seems a little bit tedious and excessive? While I primarily log in from two devices, one of them is my PC tablet. While I’m not entirely sure, I’m assuming taking it with me and using it in public places such as bookstores makes it look like I’m using several devices when I’m not. Plus there’s sort of the worry that another user maybe accesses the site from the same public locations. (unlikely, I know, just throwing it out there though. Food for thought?) If logging in from multiple locations while using the same device doesn’t make me look like I’m using different devices, feel free to correct me.
There’s an issue of maybe using a friend’s computer who doesn’t play MC for a temporary amount of time. For instance, I maybe use their computer for a day out of an entirety of 3 or 4 months.

Possible Solution: I think an easier thing to do would be to let users put a note on their lookup stating that they use multiple devices (in multiple places if needed).

I also would like to address this.
should users be allowed to let other people log in as them on occasion?
I would say no to this, because it contradicts the rules of sharing accounts and one account per person. Accessing another account “on occasion” is still sharing, and the user doing any temporary transactions still has their own account to log into.

Possible Solution: Don’t allow other users to access other accounts for any reason, as it is contradictory. Users can post in their own accounts on a friend’s behalf, but not log into the friend’s account in question to post.

That’s all I have to address at the moment.

I think all of these rules are very reasonable and well placed. :3
The only one I have some trouble with is the rule that deals with users accessing others’ accounts, under Section 1. I could see how that could be useful, but I’d worry that the feature could be exploited without notice. Perhaps only allow people without an existing account to access accounts that do not belong to them? Sort of like a temporarily account share in order to go through with trades or the likes. (So, asking a friend without an account here. Though I could see how that might not work well if they didn’t know how to use the site.) My biggest worry with that rule would just be the exploitation that could occur.
Otherwise, I love the rules!

//Edit: Ah, Yoshi posted while I was typing that up. So, yes, like what they said about account access.

My initial thoughts:

Section 2
I’ve been wondering about this for a while, and I know that we can simply echo an admin/moderator, but I think a reporting feature would be nice. Other forums that I have been on had this feature, and we could report individual posts in a thread. Even though we can now link to individual posts, with a reporting feature users can report individual posts where someone is harassing another user or posts that contain extremely offensive content. With a reporting feature, then all of the reports for individual posts can all be in one place and all the admins/mods can see them.

Section 6
“Mature content in forum threads must have an [M] tag in the thread title.” I agree with this rule, since it’s kind of like a “view at your own risk” warning. When a user sees a [M] tag, then it’s up to them whether they want to view the mature content or not. Without the tag, however, there is no warning and whoever reads the thread will not be aware that it contains mature content.

Yoshi thanks for kicking off the thread with an excellent response!

To your first concern, perhaps a better way of getting at what I hope to accomplish there would be “if you share an account with someone and don’t share a computer with them, you should inform an administrator that you are in fact sharing an account”. I suppose what I’m getting at is that the administration would like to know if your account is a shared account. Then again, maybe that isn’t even important?

EDIT: I didn’t mean to imply that the user should have to inform the admin *every time*. Sorry for the confusion!

To build on the “Mature Content Warning” in Section 6, would it be possible to do a clicky box type thing that automatically labels a post or thread as [M] and thus blocks it from the “Recent Posts” list? It just seems silly to label something as a warning, just to have everyone read it anyway on the Recent list XD. Or maybe do the clickybox idea and have it tied to one of the filters, so people can chose whether or not to display [M] posts on the Recent Threads list.

Edit: As Shizuo suggests, when turning on the Filter to show [M] posts, there could be a pop-up indicating what the person is agreeing to view. ^^

Edit Edit: Skye also brings up a few good fine-tuned points for the Mature Filter idea.

o.o People can articulate better than I can, hence the links ^.^;;;.

Edit Edit Edit: (Section 2 - 7-ish, I think?)  I also agree that putting in a reporting feature might be a good idea for individual posts. The only downside is that such a feature can be used abusively to flag people who have done nothing wrong or posts that only infringe on subjective standards of “offensive”, which would just create more work for moderators (or less work? I suppose it depends on how often people contact moderators for disputes or offensive content). I doubt that would be an issue in this community, but it is still a possibility. I would support a “test run” of such a feature to see how people are reporting problems and on what subjects before implementing it as a permanent feature. In tandem with that, it may help moderators better track problematic topics and users depending on implementation (i.e. Would it create a copy of the problem post and send it to the moderator’s inbox along with the user ID of the one who posted it? This would help in cases where someone posts something offensive, only to delete it after being threatened with reporting and would also make it so moderators wouldn’t have to hunt through a thread for one single post).

I know that on some sites I’ve seen that it was recommended to put a note on your profile if you access your account from different devices OR if multiple people using the same IP all have an account with the website.

I don’t know if that’s any better than directly informing an administrator about it, though? I know either way it’s still impossible to tell if someone may be lying/exploiting/etc but maybe it’d just be less of a hassle than messaging someone about it.

glitch
In that case, I think that mentioning that the account is shared to an admin should be just fine, and then let users state on their profiles if they use multiple devices if they wish. It’s a lot less complicated in my opinion than messaging an admin every time somebody uses a different computer.

I also agree with Red Kite that a formal report feature should be put into place.

Going in a bit further from Yoshi’s post about having other people logging in for them- I’d like to express my view on the subject.

While I do think that having someone that has their own mycena account log in for someone else counts for the multiple account rule, my question is what about someone that doesn’t own a mycena account? Would the same rules apply, or would it be allowed for them to have more access around the site? (E.G. Mining nuggets for the accounts original owner whilst they’re out of town, replying to echoes, etc.) Then, the multiple account rule wouldn’t be broken because the substitute logging in wouldn’t have 2 accounts to manage.
 
Possible Solution - If this were to happen, the original owner could put a note on their main page that they would have their friend log in for them from date x to y. That way other users and mods would know that it was happening, and that the fill-in wasn’t account hopping.
Problems with This - The main problem that sticks out is that there isn’t REALLY a way to monitor if the person filling in doesn’t already have an account because people lie, and all that jazz. How would the mods, or anyone else be able to differentiate between someone logging in as a total outside to Mycena and someone that’s just pretending to be?

2ND SUBJECT

Under Section 6, it states ‘no sexually explicit content’. I’m concerned about not just sexual content, but mature content in general and how it would be handled if it were to be posted in the RP forums.

Okay, that’s fine and it’s pretty self-explanatory, but what about Mycena canon content? The ‘paw touching’ and the sacred tree topics are technically sexual (to some degree) and my question is, does that count?
  I know that there are a few daring mycenians who would want to write about more explicit things, but if that were to be the case, should there be some sort of system that allows a viewer to have to go through some sort of step that basically says ‘read at your own risk’ for anything M rated? Younger Mycena users wouldn’t stumble upon a very mature topic without some sort of warning, then. We could TECHNICALLY just write it in the echos in order to just prevent that from happening altogether, but then that raises the question of ‘well, is it okay to write explicit things in echos’? And in that instance, wouldn’t it be up to both participating parties to decide what was acceptable and what wasnt..?
Possible Solution - A pop up ‘accept’ page could appear, stating that Mycena isn’t responsible for the content written in the post, or something along those lines. OR- if it’s too much of a hassle mature content could be restricted to echos?

Problems with This - People forego actually reading little pop-up blockers sometimes, just to get to the content underneath, and I know that when I was younger, I had a few bad run-ins with content on the internet simply due to my irritation with patience and reading what the pop-up was trying to tell me. The ‘you must be 18+ to view’ was almost like an ‘i dare you to look at this’ thing, and if there were to be some sort of ‘viewer discretion advised’ on Mycena, I’m worried that the same feeling would begin to develop.

(Also, I just realized that others have already expressed some of the same views as me, and I’m sorry if I’m just restating their opinions. Q-Q )

section 6

could you please add disability and gender identity to the list of things it’s unacceptable to be intolerant of? while i understand it’s not supposed to be a complete list, those are two things that are very often ignored by admins, and it would send a clear signal to disabled and transgender users that this is a safe space for them. i know i have often been more wary when signing up on sites that don’t state those, and more enthusiastic about sites that do.

i’m also concerned about the “is what you’re posting constructive?” and how that’s going to be monitored or decided. i know a lot of sites have a problem where hateful posts are allowed because they’re said “politely”, with lots of “well i think…” statements, while still reinforcing bigotry against racial/sexual/religious/disability/gender identity. then, when the people who belong in those groups respond with anger and hurt, they are the ones punished. while i understand the point of this rule, i’m concerned about policing people’s emotions and ability to respond to hurtful things directly and not having to pad it with “constructive critcism”. because quite frankly, some things need a quick and intense denunciation, not a pandering “well maybe you should think differently…”

unsectioned

also, what is the policy going to be on art sales? are USD sales allowed? are USD-only sales allowed? or is it similar to, say, subeta, where USD sales are approved but you must have at least one slot for the site currency?

The talk about the ‘mature content’ is all making me think… Things like World of Warcraft have a “mature language filter” default enabled when you create an account… Basically it hides ‘bad words’ under @$#@@$%# filters in chat, private messages, etc…

Maybe something like that could be added on everyone’s user settings page that auto-hides ‘mature language’ and posts marked with a [M]? That would keep anyone who doesn’t want to see it from seeing any profanity, and could auto-hide even things marked with [M] on the ‘recent posts’ page, and individual forum sections… So if they didn’t want to see he [M] stuff, they could still page through, say, the RP boards, and read all the NON-[M] posts, but not even see the [M] ones to click.

Perhaps the setting could have an additional confirmation box when you click it on to view that content, much like the standard “By clicking this setting, you’re consenting that you’re mature enough to view this, and won’t be offended by mentions of violence, strong language, and mature content.”

Ans on a slightly different topic, I also like Solstice’s idea that a formal report feature should be made… It would nicely streamline reporting things like possible harassment issues, rules mishaps, bug reports, and the like. It would streamline the process nicely, and save people from having to second guess which admin to send it to. (And the back-side users can’t see, maybe all the relevant admin could then more easily see those reports in once place, without having to dig through Echos?)

Section 1
I agree with previous posts about a user just putting a note on their profile indicating different computer use and/or account sharing. It is simple and relays information without clogging up the admins’ inboxes. I assume this would save time and effort.

Section 6
I really like Roan’s idea on the [M] subject. It would ensure no one would be exposed to something they don’t want to see. Great idea. (:

Should users be allowed to let other people log in as them on occasion?
I don’t think that this is necessary, the account holder can just finish any transactions when they come back online/to Mycenacave. If someone feels they need to update the community, they could ask the user & that user could respond for them on their own account.

Mature content in forum threads must have an [M] tag in the thread title (is this a good rule?)
I think that’s a good rule, but I think it should be extended to pet profiles & user profiles. Another solution would be not to allow mature content on these profiles.

While there is a trade policy posted all ready, I think that should also be outlined in the site rules (namely no selling any pets, items or otherwise for “real life currency”).

More great posts! :)

baekhesten a few comments: regarding disability and gender identity, I think those are fantastic ideas. As for the constructive criticism, in my mind that applies only towards actual criticism (e.g. commenting on someone’s artwork / RP). I realize I neglected to actually *write* that >>. With respect to hateful posts, I think that would fall instead under “be respectful, courteous and kind” — wrapping your post with “I think"s and “my opinion"s doesn’t make it any less “bad”, and moderators will handle it accordingly. When it comes to those who belong to those groups responding with anger and hurt, in my ideal world they would not respond at all and would instead rope in a moderator to deal with the situation (using this “report” system which I fully intend on implementing).

And you totally reminded me I forgot to include any rules about sales! I’ll add those in when I get the chance (possibly tonight, maybe tomorrow). But in answer to your question in particular, no, USD sales will not be permitted on site: sales tax becomes an issue in many states if the seller receives money *or any good which can readily be traded for money*. I have no idea how Subeta handles the tax issues, but our policy will simply be to not allow sales for money or goods that can be readily traded for money. If you want to sell your art for real money, I hear [DeviantArt](http://www.deviantart.com) is pretty good for that. You would be more than welcome to link to your DA profile (or any other site where you sell things you make for USD) on-site, although not in the Trading forum. See [this thread](https://www.mycenacave.com/forums/viewthread/15/615) for an example of a really tasteful / non-spammy showcase of an IRL shop.

—-

Regarding the sexually explicit stuff, we’re not forbidding sex or sexuality. Basically, we don’t want to see porn on the forums. If you want your RPs to get explicit, either take them to instant messenger, or if you want to keep them on-site, echo.

Echos are *private* messages, and we take your privacy seriously. Staff do not have access to your echos. If necessary, an administrator can log into the database server directly and extract an echo, but in general this will only occur with the consent of at *least one of the participants of the echo*. You are free to put whatever you want in an echo, so long as everyone receiving it is OK with it.

Section 6

Shizuo;
I think the key work here is explicit.
And in that case I would deem anything like the mating ritual in MC canon to not fall under this.
At least, for how I interpret this rule, I would think about it as sensuality in a movie rating versus when they describe sexual content.
Though, relatively speaking, it seems rather softcore any way you look at it.

——

I would like more clarification on this rule, however.
I understand that in general conversation on the boards most sexual content is a no-go (as in detailed acts instead of a debatable topic), I’ve always wondered where people should draw the line when in comes to RP? I personally do not have a preference since I get offended by very few things, but I’m sure people like to write romantic and sexual tension situations, if not more. I don’t particularly browse other RPs so I’m not sure how far mature content goes, but I think it’s important to expand on this.

>>> Oops, didn’t know you were editing your post above mine glitch
>> Though I guess I’d like to make sure what I’m thinking below is correct? I’m not sure if my terms of tasteful is stretching it or not.

I interpret the originally stated rule on being “tasteful” that you could include things like heavy kissing/petting and only allude to actual oral/penetration (if it actually gets that far? sorry if that was tmi, I don’t really know how to word this otherwise) ... I think if there is a way to hide it from the recent posts and [M] tags are used, it would really avoid most of this issues.
I personally have not run into a situation that an RP partner and I have really gone beyond much that a quick kiss, but I guess for future reference because I’m not particularly against anything, it would be good to know.

I am periodically refreshing to check everyone’s prior posts while posting this, but I’m sorry if I miss anything.

Section 1
I personally feel that users should be able to log into each other’s accounts with permission. This comes from someone who has done it in the past for friends. For instance, if and when Ishy and Sapphy goes on vacation, I am perfectly happy to log on to drift her pets, complete any transactions she has in the works, drift her pets, etc. Especially if she is going to be gone for a significant amount of time. I frequently go camping in the summer and have absolutely no internet access for weeks at a time. I trust her to deal with any onsite things for me while I’m away and would really appreciate the help for things, especially when they’re time sensitive. We understand the no multi-accounting rule completely, and as such never play games or participate in events for one another. We used such a tactic to name our customs (Kali and Rea) on the same date, as I wasn’t available to be on the computer and may not have been able to by midnight server time that day.

While I do understand the concern regarding this, and would accept it if it’s decided that avoiding such situations would be better, I would be quite disappointed.

A way to check things such as this, I suppose, would be to log IPs. I suspect you guys are doing that already, yes? If suspicious, you could perhaps review if games or events were played after the account was logged in from a different IP than the norm.

That however poses another problem. Since Sapphy and I know each other IRL, we frequently log into Mycena from each other’s houses. So it could easily look like she logged into my account or I logged into hers when really I was just over at her place or vice versa.

Perhaps an extra alternative to this is to have some sort of setting for you to okay certain IPs for frequent use. When involving other users, make them agree to some sort of form that they won’t play games/event from the other user’s account. This way users could even log public places such as a library or school that the frequent. It might help identify false logins that the users themselves could monitor.

That seems like a lot of work though, coding wise. D:

Section 2
I agree with Red Kite that a reporting feature, at least for the forums, would be really handy. I haven’t personally come across much that I felt violated the rules, but if and when it does occur (and let’s be serious, as Mycena grows, that chance goes up and up) I would like a way to report a post, especially if and when a mod or admin wasn’t online.

Perhaps reported posts could be hidden until they could be reviewed by a moderator, and if deemed acceptable that could be revealed again. This way, in the case of things outlandishly offensive, if a mod wasn’t on, people still wouldn’t have to view the post.

Section 6
I also have concerns about the explicit rule. As a roleplayer (or so I’d like to think), sometimes RPs do descend into scenes that are considered explicit by some or not by others. I had a roleplay here on Mycena a while back that while it was tagged with M and was what I deemed tasteful, I knew could be determined by other players to be well out of bounds. Taking it to echo breaks the flow incredibly, and I personally have absolutely no issue with reading such material. If I was following someone’s RP and missed out on some crucial information because they took it to echo, I’d be sad.

I really like Roan‘s idea that [M] tagged threads don’t appear unless a user specifies that they do through some sort of filter. I could have a birthdate verification (perhaps this could be used for a filter on swearing as well) as I know we do have a few younger users running about. This would give users the freedom to RP or discuss topics that are seen as more mature. At the same time though, users would have the freedom to turn on the filter and not see those threads.

I’d also be nice if we could say, block specific threads. I have a few forums unchecked in my most recent posts page, but only because one of two threads in that forum. I would like to be able to turn off those specific threads.

Section 7
Regarding no spam: I personally find “bump” posts as spam and dislike using them. I would love a feature that we could use to bump up a thread without adding a new post, if possible. I really like to keep my sales posts clean, for instance. Or at least perhaps a way we can hide a post from the most recent posts page. I know many users like to plan out their character caverns, for instance, and post all the posts they need before filling in information. A way to prevent those nearly blank posts from appearing on most recent posts would, in my opinion, really help keep that page clean.

Edit: Sorry it’s so long. I hope I didn’t repeat too much. D: I know I’m bad about that.

The only issue I have with anything is the Section 6 part under the “mature content” group.

I agree with Ishy that RP’s cutting to echo’s, or being taken off site, really breaks the flow. Also what she said about if someone was reading the RP, they could miss some very important information! That’s sad! It also make me personally feel restricted in what I can write about and as a RPing site, I feel that that is counter productive in a way? Users come here to express themselves in writing, and limiting what they can write about, idk I feel like I’m talking in circles at this point haha.

I do understand wanting to keep MC “clean” and not full of porn/ect. I just don’t like the idea of banning it all together.

My possible solutions are:
1. Implementation of a “Spoiler” type tag that black-outs text unless highlighted. This prevents readers from accidentally reading the content and lets users keep posting in their RP. It would be the readers choice to view the material, taking the responsibility off MC (right?)
2. This would be more courtesy from the writers more than anything, but at the beginning of the tread mark it with [M] of course, perhaps even on specific posts having a quick little “OoC” moment where they warn readers that the following post contains sexual themes/strong language/gore/ect.

I also like everyone’s suggestions about having [M] threads filtered out.

Section 1:

I’d say no, unless you have an account formally shared, it should be for you only, for reasons already mentioned (enforcement difficulty, rule confusion of new users, etc).

I log in from various public computers, several in my house, a couple mobile devices, and computers of friends/family on occasion. So the way it’s worded looks like it’d be a problem for me. What you mentioned here would be more reasonable - “Please inform admins if you are sharing an account.” Even “Please inform admins you like to log in from random places” would work.

Question on account sharing, though - Can more than 2 people share an account? While I am no longer in this situation, when my siblings and I were little, we’d sometimes make one account and all 4 of us would use it.

Section 2:

I’d ask that you add another metric when considering punishment - how obvious it was to the cheater that they were cheating.
If, for instance, Cave In was giving me 90 nuggets but saying 80 and everything else looked normal, it’d probably take me a long time to figure out something was happening. It’d be entirely possible for me to not notice at all.
If, on the other hand, Cave In let me play past the max cap, I’d probably notice it pretty quickly - definitely by the time I got bored and went to deposit the nuggets and found more than 3079.

Section 3:

Does that mean we can’t use something like ReloadEvery to watch recent posts? I haven’t been doing that on Mycena, but I used to do it on Digis with 1 minute reloads.

Section 4:

While all these rules seem fair, I do have a question: What about using pen and paper (or MS paint) notes as help, like for Mushroom Meals. I have trouble with sudoku without in-game notes. And I suppose you could use them for Echolocation as well, sketching potential paths to see if one makes sense.

Section 5:

Looks good.

Section 6:

I like the [M] tags. It’s a good rule. If you could remove them from recent posts like Roan mentions here, that’d be even better.

I think of Mycena as being mature enough to have word-porn in threads with an [M] tag, especially if it’s removed from recent posts. The nice thing about word porn is that a viewer can stop reading at any word - if the sentence is going in an uncomfortable direction, click out.

What about linking to explicit content? If, for instance, I wanted to show someone an Oglaf comic (very much porn, although also funny), would posting a link to it with a “CAUTION: NSFW LINK” warning be acceptable?

EDIT: Also, you put reslove instead of resolve >_>

Section 7:

I understand why you have the rules as posted.

Section 8:

It should probably be same and forum /and/ content rules, unless sex stuff is okay in chat.

Extra:
This post says that I can’t sell anything for USD. Can I sell something physical like kevo jewelry for Nuggies/Gems, or would that count as selling for something that can be traded for USD, since it’s a thing that I could also sell for USD?

Also how did you do that cool linebreak?

Postless bumps would be very appreciated by me as well.

@glitch

thank you for the reply! i’m glad that sort of behavior won’t be tolerated on here. and yeah, i think it’s reasonable for people to go straight to the moderators. i guess i’m just used to tumblr, where moderators don’t really address that sort of thing and users are left to straighten that out on their own. but the admins here seem much more proactive!

as for the USD sales, from what i know of my past experience selling art on pet sites, sales tax has never been an issue? and this is because it’s only taxable if you’re making a certain amount per year (up in the hundreds), and that would be entirely on the artist and not the site. however, i am of course not a legal expert, and i totally understand if you don’t want to even get into that mess! just trying to clarify it largely because i have seen some people in the forums include USD in their sales (e.g. only doing non-MC art for USD).

I’m just going to throw my 2 nuggets in on things.

Read every response in this thread before posting your own. If it is apparent that you did not, or if your post is off topic, your post will be removed.
-I think when it comes to, the more popular threads such as help it might be hard to read through ALL of them. Right now I know the site does not have many complex things but as it grows, without perhaps a keyword search function to check, it becomes rather daunting to make sure every thread does not already fit your question, especially if you’re scared for one reason or another, or in a rush to find out the answer. More over, to say it will be deleted I think becomes more like ‘policing’ each thread for the Mods and Admins. Instead perhaps the phrasing, ‘If it becomes apparent the current issue has been addressed by one or more players, further threads on the issues will likely be deleted.’
So then the older issues, unless let’s say pined/stickied to the top, that have ended up in the back wont become a fossil dig for players. Likewise, to say: If you do not read ALL of them, you will be deleted (this is how I feel the statement comes across), just makes it feel discouraging to people to post.
Like myself, I am not a major reader. I did not skim all the posts in this thread to see if what I just said above has been stated. I’m multitasking and wanting to state my thoughts before they vanish.

should users be allowed to let other people log in as them on occasion? Yes, provided it is clear that these are two separate people. I know sometimes things come up and you just need someone to maybe do the dailies you do.

As far as content that contains self harm. I keep seeing this crop up. I think people should be able to express they are feeling that bad towards themselves they feel like doing self harm.
I know this opens up a can of worms but, I think that some people do not know were to go for help, or what they try and find online may not be the best help. In this way users may express their need for help because they fear or are inflicting self harm but, do not go into details. Like graphic details. Which perhaps for those who have gone through the same emotions can perhaps help another. Sometimes being able to reach out if it feels no one close can help, can be really great.

LAsDarkFireWolf: I believe that clause (‘Read every response in this thread ...”) is only for this thread alone as glitch wishes for us to remain on topic while discussing the clauses of the site rules he’s put forward for public opinion.

Jingles; Using pen and paper (rl or ms paint) to make notes for Mushroom Meals is just fine :) Self-contained just means you have to do it yourself and not let a program do the solving for you :)

—-

Personally, I am fine with [M] content when properly labelled as such. Whether this is with an [M] tag in the title, or a checkbox upon posting is fine with me. I would appreciate a filter for users that do not wish to see these posts, and if topics are properly marked, I don’t believe this should be an issue.

The bumping has also got a little out of hand with the recent trade topics :P I understand why it is done, but gosh. For the sake of keeping topics clean, a bump functionality would be nice, but I would strongly recommend alotting a fixed amount of bumps (e.g. one bump a day per user).

—-

There are multiple parts to be considered when it comes to USD sales;
a) selling site content (e.g. items, pets, accounts) for USD
b) selling arts and crafts based on Mycena property (e.g. items, pets), for USD
c) selling arts and crafts, not based on Mycena property, for USD
d) selling anything; site content, arts and crafts based on Mycena property, arts and crafts not based on Mycena property, for Custom Credit

a & b are not allowed, period
c, I believe, is up for discussion; you are welcome to post about the things you create, and tastefully link off-site to a shop where you do sell these things. Directly selling non-Mycena related arts and crafts for USD from a post in the forums is what we’re talking about.

Custom Credit is a different matter.

As for items that can be resold; something that was crafted for you in real life, that you paid for in gems/nuggets, could be resold, and that makes it a sticky issue. I have bought RL art specific to my characters with gems/nuggets, but I sincerely doubt anyone would purchase something from me that is so specific. Chances are this is what is emphasised in glitch’s “any good which can readily be traded for money”.

Perhaps it’s worth comparing the arts and crafts for gems/nuggets situation to e.g. buying/selling Nintendo 3DS games with/for gems/nuggets, as these could very easily be resold. I do quite enjoy buying RL arts and crafts with site currency, so I would like that to remain an option, but regarding USD sales I’m personally neutral :)

I agree with the suggestion about a report feature, because while I don’t want there to be reason to use it, sometimes it is necessary and echos seem like an informal way to go about it for some reason.

I also agree with the direction the topic of mature content is taking, in that something should be done about these things appearing in recent posts and that there should be some way of filtering.

Pornography should definitely not be allowed on the forums, however, I think it would be fair due to different interpretations/sensitivities, to define very clearly the boundaries of what is and isn’t appropriate.

A suggestion for a mature tagging feature on posts: rather than a catch-all, perhaps checkboxes for different sorts of content. For example:
-cursing/language(could be hard to define?)
-sexual content(in ways still appropriate for the site as deemed by staff)
-violence
-drugs
-discussion of serious topics such as racism, misogyny, etc?
-any ideas for this? I’m having a brain fart.

I see these applying mostly to roleplays, however they could be useful tags for users who are sensitive to different types of things. I realize that not everything can be accounted for in a feature like this, but perhaps it would be a little bit more useful than just “mature content warning” for helping users decide if the topic is something they might not be comfortable with.
It could be like on some art websites where there are content warning tags that can be checked off for different pieces, except, you know. For verbal content.

If there are warnings such as these, however, it may be difficult to keep a thread accurate when it has the potential to branch off into different topics, so perhaps these should also be used in individual posts? I could see them being easily integrated into the posts somewhere like underneath the BBcode key. I’m not sure how this would be coded though, as in would it just apply to the individual posts or also get applied to the threads that these posts are in? Is this even possible to code?

Related to mature content topic:

I would like to suggest that it is defined somewhere very clearly how mycenacave adheres to COPPA laws and such. As far as I know this is an all-ages website, but mature topics do get brought up and I’m not sure how that affects the site, and also it makes me unsure as to what I should post knowing that minors are very easily exposed to it. Filters could help, but I guess it wouldn’t hurt to add information somewhere in the terms of use and privacy policy(here in particular since this is where COPPA applies).
Like, I think the reason Aywas has an age limit of 13+ is because any younger than that and the site is potentially liable when a child is exposed to something pg 13? There are topics with the designated [M] somewhere in the tagline for mature content of course.

I’m not…super well-read on internet laws though so this is just a vague suggestion on making the terms of the site more clear right now while the rules are under revision/discussion. Defining things more clearly would help perspective of where we draw the line with different content. I know that you don’t want to be too strict about every rule but this is one topic that I think requires a little more attention to detail and merits discussion.

Away from the mature content topic:

Under section 7, where it says to use proper spelling and punctuation and so on. The way I interpret this is that the rules aren’t super stringent, but the way we type should be readable and understandable. If that’s correct, then what I have to ask is about capitalization. to me, it does not bear any effect on my ability to read someone’s post if nothing is capitalized. And indeed I have also developed the habit(blame tumblr!) of typing in all lowercase most of the time. I’m actually putting in a conscious effort now not to do that in case this is not up to par with the site’s rules. So far I have not had anything said to me about not capitalizing sentences or titles, so I figure I have leeway to be lax about that. What about capitalizing “I”?

for example: if i type like this, does this bother people enough that it should be against the rules? i don’t have any trouble reading posts like this since the meaning does not change.

On digis the rules regarding this seemed much more stringent, and I try not assume mycenacave holds the same standards about everything, but a lot of the same users go here so the rules might turn out to reflect their sensibilities. I have seen from time to time posts that suggest it is unsightly to type in a way that isn’t up to par with academic english standards(aside from minor stuff like emoticons). I have a different opinion about high english standards(for what I consider to be valid reasons that are unrelated to this topic) but nonetheless I want to abide by the rules.

In other words I want to stop capitalizing my “I”‘s forever but I don’t know if I’m allowed to B)
punctuation is something I don’t usually adhere to on sites like tumblr but those at least I’ll admit contribute to the meaning of sentences so I’d be using those even if they weren’t considered necessary.

Section 1: I would day that having a friend access your account temporarily is fine. For example, if you really want to have one of your ineki named on a certain date and you won’t have internet access on that day so youur friend does it for you, I think that’s fine and I wouldn’t classify it as account sharing. There is a difference between that and going on every day for a month to collect someone else’s bank interest. For me the best solution would be to if the administration notices any funky activity coming form someone’s account to message the user for an explanation. If the explanation coincides with hat the he data collected then no further action needs to be taken.

Section 6: I do like the idea of auto filtering and such. I would say that if we don’t want a coded structure for M rated posts and just remain with the durent marking system, I would love it if people would mark which postes are M in an M rated rp. I love the role plays on this site and some of the most talented writers write M role plays. As such I wouldn’t want to miss a whole rp based on one or two posts. And I agree with doing something about M rated rps in the recent section. I always thought that was rather pointless.
Also if we do put in a coded bit shouldn’t we get to include what type of. M rated content there is? I mean, some people might be okay with M rated cursing but not M rated sexual content.

I have another question regarding USD/crafts. I’ve been making clay pet heads & was wondering if I’d be able to offer them for MC currency but have the buyer pay whatever the shipping costs are?

Section 1
In response to sharing accounts; During raffles and events it should be very specific in events and raffles if it is per USER or per ACCOUNT.

As Ishy stated, we both have access to each other’s accounts and have used it to drift pets, help with transactions that were time-sensitive, and name pets we wanted on a specific date when the other could not get online. My internet was down unexpectedly for a time period and she had to help me deal with some transactions that hadn’t been wrapped up. It was much appreciated.

I am also worried exactly how you would tell it was another person accessing in the account. Again, like Ishy said- we know eachother IRL and will very often go on Mycena at eachother’s house and be on at the same time etc. I could easily see how that would look like we were constantly sharing accounts when that is not the case. =\

I’m okay with accounts being sold- as long as it still follows the other selling rules and an Administrator is involved.

Section 6
The [M] tag seems to be very hot topic, and my only 2 cents I really have on the matter you actually stated in your first bit of Section 6, and that’s the fact that what one person considers ‘[M]’ someone else might not. I like Mokitty’s suggestion of checkboxes and a sort of official [M] tag being implemented as opposed to just the title of the thread. It also makes it more obvious to other users. An option that I’d love to see if that happens that’s been suggested to block threads marked [M].

Something that I would add to that would be to not have [M] marked threads pop up in recent posts unless the user has marked them as ‘following’ or some other similar function. The recent posts area is more dangerous for just accidentally stumbling across that stuff than the actual RP section is.

An ability to block specific threads (recent posts etc.) would also be something I would appreciate because like some other people I have a couple Forum areas unchecked because of just a couple threads.

Also as mentioned, for Character Caverns and Musings- I’d like to work on that without completely spamming up the recent posts page. An option in those areas to have the posts not show up would be a nice addition.

Art sales are something I do here on Mycena. I happen to not see an issue for selling your services for Custom Credit or Gems. They are a 1/1 conversion with USD.

I do however, have an issue with the “Selling anything for Custom Credit” I don’t want to limit my customers or myself in ordering just Ineki or Human versions of their ineki. I don’t see a problem with selling a service (Drawing Art) for Mycena Currencies. Particularly Custom Credit seeing as that is not transferable anyway.

I would have very specific rules set in place for IRL art being sold (non digital) seeing as that often requires telling someone your personal address. But I believe that falls under the ‘Readily resold’ which normally character art commissions cannot be readily sold again. But in any case, I would not appreciate being limited in what I could offer art-wise for Mycena Currencies.

If you would like to do IRL commissions there are other sites that are much better geared towards that. Deviantart has been mentioned but there’s also FurAffinity, Weasyl, Sheezyart, and Tumblr even. I feel that if you’re going to be using Mycena properties to make a profit, it should make a profit as well.

Jingles: You are correct, the proposed rules as they are now would forbid using ReloadEvery to watch recent posts.

You can sell physical objects for nuggets or gems because neither nuggets nor gems can be traded for USD. Basically, you wouldn’t be able to sell for money, prepaid visa cards, amazon gift cards, and so on.

The linebreak things are part of [Markdown](https://www.mycenacave.com/forums/viewthread/1/1546/#post_bacd0246e5) :)

—-

LAsDarkFireWolf: if we *did* allow you to let other people log in as you, games / dailies would be one of the things they are expressly forbidden from doing.

In the United States, it is actually illegal to attempt to incite self-harm. So that part isn’t so much MC rules as it is law.

—-

To clarify the USD trading thing a little bit, tax law cares about things which can be “readily” exchanged for money. This generally means “money equivalent” such as prepaid visa cards, gift cards, etc. Custom credit is sort of like a gift card but since it is non-transferrable and worthless outside of Mycena Cave it is excempt from this (that is actually *why* it is non-transferrable). It’s not about Mycena Cave making a commission on your transactions or what sort of trading we want to see, rather it’s us making sure we don’t run afoul of United States tax laws.

Thankfully this only goes one-way: you are more than welcome to buy or sell RL things with nuggets or gems :)

As for having the buyer pay for the shipping costs, I don’t know :< On the one hand, that seems reasonable; on the other hand, I know I’ve bought things off of Ebay that cost $0.01 with $100 shipping. I’m not sure how to avoid going down that road. Does anyone know if it is possible for the buyer to pay for the shipping directly to UPS or whoever you use? As in, not send the money to you at all? If so, that might be a way forward.

—-

Recarding COPPA - currently we comply by never sharing any information about anybody regardless of their age. COPPA covers a name, home address, email address, telephone number, or any other information that would allow someone to identify the child.

However, it is entirely possible that a member posts this information *about themselves* on the forum, at which point I think technically we would be violating COPPA. **I think the best way is to require people to be over 13 when signing up.** I think this is a very reasonable requirement, which a lot of websites do. In any case, if we allow people under 13 to sign up, I think the kind of content we make accessible on forums etc would have to change drastically (i.e. anything labeled [M] would be outright forbidden). Having an “I certify that I am 13 years old or older” checkbox on the registration page seems better.

—-

With respect to capitalization, I don’t think putting specific gramatical exceptions into the rules would be a good thing, as I think it would encourage use of these exceptions. But I don’t expect anyone will get on your case for failing to capitalze your ‘I’s.

*cough* I might get on your case a little for the I’s. It makes me twitch slightly.

But anyway, something came up recently when trading with someone that I thought I should throw out to the community for answers (or glitch himself). Someone is buying something off me for CC. However, they have some of their own CC, and they were wondering if they could use that CC for me. I believe the answer is no, because the whole point of CC was to streamline other people paying for customs, but I would love some input.

Shima: Custom creit is non-transferrable, which means that nobody can give you their custom credit.

I would expect that for situations with shipping, the shipping price would have to be agreed on by the buyer before the object is created? E.g. agreeing to $2 before actually performing the craft? (Whereas on E-Bay, the shipping you have to pay is much more forced because it’s a forced payment based on the contract you’re signing the moment you bid.) I could hardly see anyone on Mycena charging $100 shipping for a small charm or piece of jewelry. I see how it’s a sticky subject, though, it’d certainly be nice to investigate if there are carriers that allow the payment to be paid directly to them :)

As for selling RL things ‘in general’ for gems/nuggets, that also means there is someone BUYING RL things ‘in general’ for gems/nuggets. I could offer someone 1m nuggets for their spare Nintendo 3DS, and that 3DS could readily be resold for $100. A piece of commissioned art of one of my characters is much more personal and harder to resell, but where to draw the line?